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Thema: Hdmi cec

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    Hdmi cec

    Hello,
    is it possible to control HDMI CEC in memory only for example by the script? Not to write into etc/enigma2/settings
    Example:
    I am listening radio channel through external amplifier that is connected optically to the box.
    I don't need a TV in this case. But my HDMI CEC is set to turn off the box when TV goes to standby.
    That is OK for TV but not for Radio. So I looking for a way how to modify hdmicec.handle_tv_standby=disabled
    temporary only for a few seconds somehow utill I turn the TV OFF and then set it back to previous value.
    Any ideas how to do that?

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  2. #2
    Senior Mitglied Avatar von Mr.Servo
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    Zitat Zitat von smilan1 Beitrag anzeigen
    Hello,
    is it possible to control HDMI CEC in memory only for example by the script? Not to write into etc/enigma2/settings
    Example:
    I am listening radio channel through external amplifier that is connected optically to the box.
    I don't need a TV in this case. But my HDMI CEC is set to turn off the box when TV goes to standby.
    That is OK for TV but not for Radio. So I looking for a way how to modify hdmicec.handle_tv_standby=disabled
    temporary only for a few seconds somehow utill I turn the TV OFF and then set it back to previous value.
    Any ideas how to do that?
    Hi! Maybe it's a good idea to have a look in the CEC-settings of your TV? Maybe you can tell the TV: "Don't send a CEC-shutdown command to other devices when TV goes into standby"?

    Of course, this will be durable and not temporary… Therefore only an idea!

    Regards…….Mr.Servo
    Wissen ist das einzige Gut, das sich vermehrt, wenn man es teilt. / Knowledge is the only resource that increases when shared.

  3. Thanks smilan1 bedankten sich
  4. #3
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    Zitat Zitat von Mr.Servo Beitrag anzeigen
    Hi! Maybe it's a good idea to have a look in the CEC-settings of your TV? Maybe you can tell the TV: "Don't send a CEC-shutdown command to other devices when TV goes into standby"?

    Of course, this will be durable and not temporary… Therefore only an idea!

    Regards…….Mr.Servo
    Hi Mr.Servo,
    I can't do that because I use TV remote control (RC) to turn off all 3 devices (TV. box, amplifier) at once.
    Unfortunatelly my Philips TV does not accept STANDBY (0x36) command over HDMI. Only WAKE UP (0x04) is working.
    So I use BOX RC to turn ON the devices, but I have to use TV RC to turn them OFF.
    Regards, smilan1

  5. #4
    Senior Mitglied Avatar von s3n0
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    Hi.

    HDMI CEC is a complicated interface. The commands for HDMI CEC I think are standardized only since its version 2.0 or 1.4, but until then, the command was non-standard and each device manufacturer (TV or set top box) invented its own CEC commands or even its own communication via HDMI interface. Several older manufacturers of devices with HDMI CEC support used identical commands + communication, but this was not always the case for all manufacturers. Therefore, when turning the TV on / off via the set-top box works, it is more of a miracle than a usable feature :).

    I had a similar problem with the LG TV, which uses its own protocol to communicate via the HDMI interface. It's called the LG Simplink. The Simplink communication principle requires that devices be pre-paired in the same way as Bluetooth devices. Also, the algorithm (source code) of the commercial LG Simplink communication protocol is not available to the public, so it is a big problem to simulate communication in Enigma. It is practically impossible to do legally.

    I solved this problem with my older LG TV by using the service connector of the RS-232 interface. Of course, this interface must be in the set top box and at the same time in your TV. This communication is very simple - either through the use of Python or through the Shell script. You can find my solution here: I have the solution for problem with Standby mode for LG-TV with HDMI-CEC Simplink.

    As for the implementation of direct communication via the HDMI interface (and not via the RS-232 interface), it is necessary to use the Python language directly inside the Enigma / Python directory. This means running some created plugin for Enigma (maybe the plugin already exists), which will turn on / off your TV device via the default button, by invoking the algorithm in the HDMI-CEC plugin. However, if you use the RS-232 interface, then the shell-script in the set-top box can also be run via the configured hotkey on the RCU.

    It is also complicated from the programmer's point of view to determine or devise the way when and under what circumstances the TV device will turn on / off. At what exact time should your TV turn off? Should you enter the RADIO channel selection? If any RADIO starts playing? And when exactly should the TV device turn on repeatedly due to RADIO? After turning off the RADIO? Or will the TV device be switched on only at the regular command of the user via the RCU power-button?

    RADIO is also used with an active TV device because many users use a very long list of different radio stations. Often stations are overwritten by users - for newer stations. So the list of radio stations is constantly changing in the list. Then it is not possible to switch the RADIO station without displaying the station list (because there are so many).

    A better way would be to do this by configuring some hotkey button on the RCU (use the GUI MENU in OpenATV) to configure the radio to run via the OpenWebif interface, in a shell-script. The tuner can always be used in a set-top box, even if the Enigma itself is in standby mode. This is so that it is possible to use a set-top box for the purpose of streaming from its tuner (for example, you also have more tuners in your set-top box and in the other room you have another set-top box but without a tuner to which you stream satellite broadcasts).
    You can easily try this method in standby mode yourself. Open OpenWebif in your web browser on your PC while your set-top box / Enigma is in standby. In the OpenWebif interface, then click on the TV or RADIO list of stations with the mouse and select + start playing any station. Your TV device will not turn on (stay off) while the tuner starts working (and possibly streaming to the network). However, I am not sure whether the optical audio output (if you use it) will also be active in this mode. But maybe yes.

    Sorry for the long text, but as you can see, it's not as easy as you imagined :). It is not enough to add only one function as you wrote - "hdmicec.handle_tv_standby = disabled". Correctly, there should still be a few conditions where exactly and under what circumstances when using the RADIO, the TV device will turn on / off. And it is complicated for the user to set this.
    Geändert von s3n0 (13.01.2021 um 12:42 Uhr)
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  6. Thanks Mr.Servo, smilan1 bedankten sich
  7. #5
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    Hi s3n0,
    I have tested your suggestion with streaming in OpenWebif while box is in standby mode. Unfortunately optical output is not active in this case.
    I agree with you, that HDMI CEC is a complicated interface. From TV side it is not too much to set on/off , arc and that's all. On the other side
    enigma's HDMI interface has a lot of settings what is great. Concerning radio mode I don't want to change anything in CEC. I understand that TV
    is also important in radio mode when you want to select the radio channel to play. But then when the channel is selected and I want to listen it
    for a long time I don't need the TV anymore, so I want to switch it off. But when I do that TV sends the command over HDMI to the box and box goes
    to Standby. So I looking for a way how to tell the box "ignore Standby command for one time only". Of course I can do that through menu-setting-system-hdmi cec
    or pull out the HDMI cable from the TV before turning it off, but I'm looking for better solution.

  8. #6
    Senior Mitglied Avatar von s3n0
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    @smilan1:

    You probably didn't understand. Please read everything I have written to you again.

    You imagine it very easily. But this is not the case at all. The command to turn off the TV device should come when exactly ?! Please write it to me ... then maybe you'll understand when you start thinking about it.

    When exactly will the TV device turn off ? Do you press the "TV channels button" on the RCU, then the list of favorite radio station lists is displayed, and only after opening a specific radio station list is the TV device switched off ? Or how exactly do you imagine it ?

    This is very easy to implement in the code, but it is very difficult to achieve any logic, connection, cooperation with other Enigma functions, as the TV device will be turned off from now on! There is also a second very important question - when will the TV device turn on again ? Never ? So just by pressing the "POWER" button on the RCU ? However, after pressing the "POWER" button on the RCU, your set-top box will still go into standby mode (because it is still not in standby). So to turn on the TV device again, you have to press the POWER button on the RCU up to two times in a row (the first time to sleep and the second time to wake up your set top box regularly).

    It is not easy to implement because it is directly dependent on many other features.

    It would be best if you selected a hot key on the RCU yourself, to manually turn off the TV display when you need it (when you have started a RADIO channel and when you no longer need to use the TV display). This can be achieved, for example, by the aforementioned RS-232 interface (serial cable between the set top box and the TV) or via the RCU of your set-top box, if this RCU has a separate programmable on / off button. TV equipment. But it depends on the specific device (type and manufacturer of set top box, type and manufacturer of TV equipment, type of Enigma).

    Unfortunately, you still haven't written the manufacturer and model of your TV and your set-top box. Do both devices have an RS-232 interface ?
    Formuler F3 (BCM 7362-A0, 2x 750 MHz, mips)
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  9. Thanks Mr.Servo bedankten sich
  10. #7
    Senior Mitglied Avatar von Mr.Servo
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    Zitat Zitat von smilan1 Beitrag anzeigen
    Hi Mr.Servo,
    I can't do that because I use TV remote control (RC) to turn off all 3 devices (TV. box, amplifier) at once.
    Unfortunatelly my Philips TV does not accept STANDBY (0x36) command over HDMI. Only WAKE UP (0x04) is working.
    So I use BOX RC to turn ON the devices, but I have to use TV RC to turn them OFF.
    Regards, smilan1
    What I do not understand: In case your TV ignores the method "specific Standby (specific device address)", TV might accept the method "System Standby (broadcast address)". After this you may re-activate amplifier and box directly (specific device address)?

    Have a look in specification 1.4a, chapter 13.3.2:
    a) user selects System Standby: <Standby> (broadcast address)
    b) user selects specific Standby: <Standby> (specific device address)

    CEC Table 9 Message Descriptions for the Standby Feature
    Opcode: <Standby>; Value: 0x36
    Description: Switches one or all devices into standby mode. Can be used as a broadcast message or be addressed to a specific device. See section CEC 13.3 for important notes on the use of this message
    Responses: Switch the device into standby(3). Ignore the message if already in standby.
    (3)= Can be ignored if actively engaged in a recording or providing a source stream for a recording. See also CEC 13.3 for other exceptions.

    section 13.3.2:
    The broadcast message <Standby> can be used to switch all CEC devices to standby. A typical scenario where the user sets a the whole system to standby is shown below:
    The whole system may be set to standby by broadcasting the <Standby> message. It is manufacturer dependent on how to differentiate between a standby message for a single device, e.g. a STB, and System Standby message (broadcast to the whole system). For example, the system or broadcast <Standby> message may be sent as the result of a long press on the local or remote control standby button.

    A device can switch another single device into standby by sending the message <Standby> as a directly addressed message to it. A <Standby> message is not a toggle and can only send a device to the Standby state: other messages shall be used to activate a device, i.e. bring a device out of the Standby state. A <Standby> message should not interrupt any background tasks such as a recording - see Timed Recording,
    section CEC 13.5.3.

    Source: HDMI-Specification Version 1.4a (klick here)

    I'm not sure if this will help you? Maybe this might help others?

    Regards…...Mr.Servo
    Wissen ist das einzige Gut, das sich vermehrt, wenn man es teilt. / Knowledge is the only resource that increases when shared.

  11. #8
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    @s3n0
    we probably do not understand each other.
    I did not say anything about The command to turn off TV.
    I said: I cannot turn off TV with RCU of my box (Amiko ViperComboHDD) over HDMI because TV (Philips 32PFL3188H) does not support that!!!
    I always use TV RCU Power button or Power button on TV directly to turn off TV+Box+Soundbar at once.
    This is standard situation when I finish to watch television.
    In case, I'm listening the radio I want to turn off just the TV itself, again by pressing above mentioned buttons.
    But before I press the button on TV, I'm looking for way how to quickly modify HDMI settings in the Box by hotkey
    from hdmicec.handle_tv_standby=standby to hdmicec.handle_tv_standby=disabled and back after pressing the hotkey again.
    In the same way as HdmiCec.py do but without modifying /etc/enigma2/setting.

    I thought, I could be possible. It was just an idea, but maybe I'm wrong

    Q: And when will the TV device turn on again?
    A: When I decide to turn it on by pressing the button on TV again.

    And if I want to turn off the Box + the Soundbar and let the TV as it is (off in this case), I just use the Box RCU power button to turn off both devices.

    TV has a small 3 pin service connector, but I don't know if it is RS232 or not. I did not search for it.
    Box has RS232 on motherboard only.
    Geändert von smilan1 (13.01.2021 um 23:00 Uhr)

  12. #9
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    @Mr.Servo

    Enigma2-hdmicec-20210113.log
    =========================
    15:54:42.7133 <Tx:> 0F 36 <Broadcast><Standby>
    15:55:58.7583 <Tx:> 00 36 <TV><Standby>
    15:55:59.1106 <Rx:> 00 00 36 00 <TV><Feature Abort><Standby><Unrecognized opcode>

    As you can see no answer/action on Broadcast Standby, Feature Abort on device specific Standby...

  13. #10
    Senior Mitglied Avatar von Mr.Servo
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    Zitat Zitat von smilan1 Beitrag anzeigen
    Enigma2-hdmicec-20210113.log
    =========================
    15:54:42.7133 <Tx:> 0F 36 <Broadcast><Standby>
    15:55:58.7583 <Tx:> 00 36 <TV><Standby>
    15:55:59.1106 <Rx:> 00 00 36 00 <TV><Feature Abort><Standby><Unrecognized opcode>

    As you can see no answer/action on Broadcast Standby, Feature Abort on device specific Standby...
    WOW, you are right: Your TV neither accepts "<Broadcast><Standby> (= 0x0F) nor "<Adressed><Standby>" (TV= 0x00)!
    For my understanding: When you send "<Tx:> 0F 36 <Broadcast><Standby>", TV remains active and box goes in Standby (due to broadcast)? Or does box also remains active, means: nothing happens?

    [Edit] Another idea: Maybe Philips have already changed their philosophy and therefore their firmware? Maybe an update of TV-firmware will solve that problem with <Unrecognized opcode> ?

    Zitat Zitat von smilan1 Beitrag anzeigen
    I can't do that because I use TV remote control (RC) to turn off all 3 devices (TV. box, amplifier) at once. So I use BOX RC to turn ON the devices, but I have to use TV RC to turn them OFF.
    Do to the fact, that your amplifier is connected with optical cable (e.g. S/PDIF) towards TV, amplifier do not receive any CEC-commands. Therefore you have to switch it OFF via infrared of your TV-RC? Am I right?

    This means: you have to find a "only-TV-standby" solution without HDMI-CEC. Maybe use infrared (IR) of box-RC or use a universal-RC (e.g. 4-in-1 RC) instead. Or hardcore: Change brand of TV! Anyway, this sounds horrible…

    BTW: In my system, I can switch my box & Panasonic-TV ON and OFF simultaneously with box-RC. I have to switch ON and OFF my Bose system separately with Bose-RC (due to S/PDIF-connection). But I I'm going to replace this optical connection by a HDMI-connection between TV and Bose and I hope that I can handle all three devices by box-RC. We will see...

    Same Situation in my guest room: I have a Samsung-TV connected to the second box (without Sound System) and I only use box-RC for both.

    Regards…….Mr.Servo
    Geändert von Mr.Servo (13.01.2021 um 17:57 Uhr) Grund: "Another idea" added
    Wissen ist das einzige Gut, das sich vermehrt, wenn man es teilt. / Knowledge is the only resource that increases when shared.


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