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Thema: Using Service Alternates
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03.04.2017, 11:17 #1
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Using Service Alternates
Hi,
im looking to understand a bit more about using 'alternative' settings on OpenAtv.
I know now you can set your preferred alternative tuner between Sat/Cable/Terrestrial and presumably this prioritises which tuner to use when recording?
i also want to know about using alternatives in different bouquets - I think you can nominate an alternative for each channel/service on your favourites. How does this work? Can anyone explain how to go this step by step and how it would benefit user?
i use a mixture of Sat and Terrestrial on my Edision combo, both channel lists are very similar. I would like to nominate a Terrestrial channel as an alternative if I'm watching a Sat channel and a scheduled recording is happening. At the moment a Sat tuner needs to be 'freed' which usually zaps from the service I am watching. I then have to switch to my Terrestrial channel list and find the channel I was watching.
Is is a simpler way to avoid this to use alternatives?
thanks.Geändert von Partymack711 (03.04.2017 um 11:22 Uhr)
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04.04.2017, 02:40 #2
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Box 1:Vu+ Ultimo 4k 4x DVB-S2 FBC / 2x DVB-C OpenATV 6.2Box 2:Gigablue Quad4k 2xDVB-S2 OpenATV 6.2Box 3:AX Quadbox 2400HDBox 4:diverseBox 5:DVBViewerSadly alternatives where once started but support for them was never really finished.
As you correctly guessed, services are meant to link identical channels using different broadcasting technologies into a single visible channel entry only.
Technically that's achieved by creating "sub-bouquets" that contain all channels which are alternatives of each other, but instead of a bouquet you see them as one entry.
Once you switch to such a channel, the "first match" is taken (Although that function is called "getBestPlayableService"), depending on your tuner preference.
So if you have three times BBC One HD, once via Sat, once via Cable and once via DVB-T, a tuner preference DVB-T -> DVB-S -> DVB-C would lead to the DVB-T variant to be taken, unless all DVB-T tuners are occupied, then it will use DVB-S and if that fails too it will finally fall back to DVB-C.
This might sound nice and smooth, but it isn't:
In the past several code pieces have been encountered that simply ignore the presence of alternative services. They will simply skip them (e.g. during EPG Refresh), mis-predict future events (like timers), don't catch changed station names (unlike plain single services) and various other quirks.
Actually that's how coding E2 stuff started for me:
Silly/minor changes in OpenWebif broke an existing 3rd party patch to fix issues with alternatives in OpenWebif again and again, but that fix was never applied inside the OpenWebif repo.
In some desperate attempt I asked for write access to the OWIF repo and got it, so that I could finally fix alternatives inside.
In the meantime I have fixed some other problems with alternatives (E.g. the calculation of how many parallel recordings are possible was also broken), but I could never keep pace with the speed some other devs rewrote other code or created new plugins in a non-alternative-friendly way.
So about half a year ago I finally gave up and removed all my "alternatives" and switched them to plain single services.
In the whole E2 world, not only within OpenATV but also OpenPLi, OpenVi, ...., there is no E2 dev left who consequently works through the code and fixes the shortages of alternative service implementation.Receiver/TV:- Vu+ Ultimo 4k 4xDVB-S2 FBC / 2x-C / 5.5TB / OpenATV 6.4@LG 65" OLED
- Gigablue Quad 4k 2xDVB-S2 / 2x-C / 1.8TB GB / OpenATV 6.4@Samsung 37" LED
- diverse weitere
- S2-Twin-Tuner PCIe@Samsung SyncMaster T240HD (PC)
- TechniSat SkyStar HD 2 (2.PC)
Internet: Unitymedia 2play 400 + Telekom VDSL100 / Linksys WRT1900ACS / IPv4 (UM) + IPv6 (Hurricane Electric+UM+Telekom)
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Danke - 2 Thanksel bandido, Papi2000 bedankten sich
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04.04.2017, 23:14 #3
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ThemenstarterHI SpaceRat, thanks for the detailed response..
Sad to hear the alternatives can be problematic.. Ive spent the evening setting my alternatives and so far - so good!
I had set as timer recording on a sat channel but when it began i was watching a different channel on Sat, normally I would be bounced to 'free' the tuner but not tonight, it simply recorded off the free terrestrial tuner! result!
Sounds like I might run into trouble if they are not being consttantly developed, but so far so smooth!
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05.04.2017, 02:43 #4
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Box 1:Vu+ Ultimo 4k 4x DVB-S2 FBC / 2x DVB-C OpenATV 6.2Box 2:Gigablue Quad4k 2xDVB-S2 OpenATV 6.2Box 3:AX Quadbox 2400HDBox 4:diverseBox 5:DVBViewerIndeed the problems with the basic functionality have been sorted out.
E2 should even be able to create concurrent recordings at the same time on different channels with only one tuner per technology (DVB-S, DVB-T, DVB-C).
It will use the preferred technology for the recording starting first and the other technology for the other recording.
However, it will not properly optimize the recordings.
One example:
1. You got Channel A and Channel B
2. Channel A can be received using Sat and DVB-T, while channel B is sat only.
3. The broadcast to record on A starts first and overlaps B
4. Preferred tuner is DVB-S
What will happen?
A. The recording on A will use DVB-S as its the preferred technology and A can be tuned via Sat
B. The recording on B will fail as B can not be received using DVB-T and only the DVB-T tuner is free
What should happen instead?
A. The recording on A should use DVB-T even if DVB-S is the preferred technology
B. The recording on B would succeed as the DVB-S tuner is still free
Simply said ...
What alternatives do:
- Use the very first free tuner in order of technology preference, not really the "best" alternative as the function name suggests
What alternatives not do:
- Fail-over to the technology of 2nd ... 3rd ... choice if decryption of the channel fails for the first technology, only "tunability" counts, not really "receivability".
- Fail-over to a 2nd ... 3rd ... alternative of the same technology, even if that would resolve timer conflicts
e.g. it will not fail-over
- from ZDF on Astra to ZDF on Hotbird
or
- from RTL to RTL Austria (very same schedule, only different commercials) to optimize transponder usage - ...
So basically alternatives only work for FTA channels (As you probably do not have multiple subscriptions for different technologies at the same time).
Obviously its not exactly the most fascinating feature of E2, so very few people incl. devs use it and as a result they get ignored in development again and again.
I already encountered plugin devs not only unaware of them but also incapable of handling them even on request, e.g. EPGImportFilter does not support alternatives and the dev doesn't even know what alternatives are.Receiver/TV:- Vu+ Ultimo 4k 4xDVB-S2 FBC / 2x-C / 5.5TB / OpenATV 6.4@LG 65" OLED
- Gigablue Quad 4k 2xDVB-S2 / 2x-C / 1.8TB GB / OpenATV 6.4@Samsung 37" LED
- diverse weitere
- S2-Twin-Tuner PCIe@Samsung SyncMaster T240HD (PC)
- TechniSat SkyStar HD 2 (2.PC)
Internet: Unitymedia 2play 400 + Telekom VDSL100 / Linksys WRT1900ACS / IPv4 (UM) + IPv6 (Hurricane Electric+UM+Telekom)
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05.04.2017, 11:12 #5
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ThemenstarterVery interesting.
Never thought about those combinations and how it might not prioritise 1st recording based on avsilability of tuners for overlapping recording.
Dissagree E2 that it's not interesting feature of E2 though, I was able to stay in same bouquet last night and move through all the channels even though I was using a Sat tuner to record. To the end user/TV viewer it looked like nothing was recording. No interruption of my viewing and no need to swop bouquets etc. Great!
i may need to pick your brains in time when I realise some of my recordings have failed due to obscure combinations.
Thanks again.
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